If you enjoyed Dark Dynasties, check out a new podcast from ID: Death by Fame. Listen to episode 1, The Price of Glee with Dino Ray Ramos, here. Follow Death by Fame wherever you get your podcasts. People come to Hollywood to find fame and fortune. The lucky ones see their star rise and are catapulted into an untouchable bubble of fame. But all too often these once beloved icons are met with a disturbing fate – either through an untimely death or a scandal that brings their world crashing down around them. Every week, host and criminal defense lawyer Sara Azari will break down a different case, and talk to the journalists who broke the story, experts and those with insider-knowledge to experience these stories that rocked the headlines on a whole new level.
If you enjoyed Dark Dynasties, check out a new podcast from ID: Death by Fame. Listen to episode 1, The Price of Glee with Dino Ray Ramos, here. Follow Death by Fame wherever you get your podcasts.
People come to Hollywood to find fame and fortune. The lucky ones see their star rise and are catapulted into an untouchable bubble of fame. But all too often these once beloved icons are met with a disturbing fate – either through an untimely death or a scandal that brings their world crashing down around them. Every week, host and criminal defense lawyer Sara Azari will break down a different case, and talk to the journalists who broke the story, experts and those with insider-knowledge to experience these stories that rocked the headlines on a whole new level.
Find episode transcripts here: https://dark-dynasties.simplecast.com/episodes/what-to-listen-to-next-death-by-fame
[00:00:00] SARA AZARI: At its debut, Glee was one of the most revolutionary shows of its time. But as quickly as it rose to fame, it fell, with some whispering about a Glee curse.
[00:00:13] REPORTER: The deceased has been identified as 31-year-old actor, Cory Monteith, who achieved great fame on the popular TV series Glee.
[00:00:20] REPORTER: And friends, family, and colleagues are still coming to grips with the shocking death.
[00:00:24] REPORTER: It appears at this point to be a suicide.
[00:00:26] SARA AZARI: I'm Sara Azari, and this is Death By Fame: The Price of Glee.
[00:00:36] SARA AZARI: Welcome to Death by Fame, the companion podcast to the Price of Glee and Death by Fame on ID and Discovery+, hosted by me, Sara Azari. I'm a criminal defense attorney in Los Angeles, representing a broad range of clients. I have represented big criminal cases at the state and federal level, and I have seen the special brand of crime and scandal that thrives in Hollywood, firsthand. By virtue of my years of experience, and of course being based in Los Angeles, my clients are sometimes high-profile and in the entertainment industry. These are crimes fueled by ambition, addiction, obsession, jealousy sometimes, and the quest for fame itself. Celebrities are like the rest of us. They are human. They have dynamics in relationships, and they too can have afflictions and struggles. But the darkness they experience is 10X and that's because of fame. Fame exacerbates problems, fame exposes those problems, and fame, often gets in the way of being able to address those problems. And in that respect, fame can be so incredibly toxic and negative, despite being the gift that only a select few get.
[00:01:59] SARA AZARI: Today we're talking about the show Glee. Yes, that Glee, the TV show about the small-town high school Glee Club. If you watched it during its heyday, you know that Glee was something of a revolution. At the beginning of its tenure it was a bright star. It was innovative, fun, and launched the careers of several young actors, including Lea Michele and Darren Criss. Glee centered around a high school Glee Club at William McKinley High School. It was one of the first shows to feature LGBTQ+ characters, actors with disabilities, and also deal with real life issues like loss of a parent, or what it's like to grapple with mental illness. The first two seasons had some of the highest ratings in TV history, averaging close to 10 million viewers. But after Season 3, viewership plummeted, and the series really struggled to live up to his glory. But Glee was also a show that had its own struggles.
[00:02:58] SARA AZARI: Ratings started to wane after the third season, and many of the actors had trouble finding work outside of Glee, due to being typecast as a high school kid, and some even lost their lives. Of course, there are the more well-known losses of Cory Monteith, Mark Salling and Naya Rivera. But several other cast and crew met with tragic ends as well. Some with odd accidents, shocking health emergencies, and even some who, tragically, took their own life. Some talk about the Glee curse. I don't see it as a curse. Having represented those with afflictions and addictions both in and outside of Hollywood, the doom that was cast on the stars of Glee is something that I've seen happen to many of my own clients. But how could a show about singing and dancing turn so incredibly dark? Today, I'm joined by Dino Ray Ramos. Together, we’ll take you through everything Glee - it's rise, it's fall, and, of course, the dark side.
[00:04:07] SARA AZARI: Welcome, Dino.
[00:04:08] DINO RAY RAMOS: Hello. Thank you for having me.
[00:04:10] SARA AZARI: He is the founder and editor-in-chief of DIASPORA, former editor for Deadline Hollywood, and an expert in all things Glee!
[00:04:20] DINO RAY RAMOS: An expert! Is, is, there's a lot of weight on that.
[LAUGHTER]
[00:04:24/ SARA AZARI: Not to put pressure on you, but let me, let me first straight up ask you, are you a Gleek?
[00:04:30] DINO RAY RAMOS: I have this interesting relationship with Glee. Uh, I think I was a Gleek, but I grew out of it after a certain amount of time. Like I, it's, it's kind of like I aged out. Like I'm in Menudo or something.
[LAUGHTER]
[00:04:47] SARA AZARI: Menudo! Whoa, okay.
[00:04:50] DINO RAY RAMOS: I, I watched it, and... yeah, I, I think I was a Gleek, and then I was like, oh, you know what, I'm graduating now. Let's move on. That's kind of my relationship with it.
[00:04:59] SARA AZARI: Well, thanks so much for being here and talking to me on the Death by Fame podcast, cause you have, obviously a lot of familiarity with the show, the fallout from the show, all of the sort of, I don't know, I call it doom. I don't really think of a, think of it as a curse, but we'll talk about that more. You just have all of that wealth of knowledge, so it's really an honor to talk to you. So tell us a little bit about yourself, specifically your background in journalism and how you got involved in Hollywood and celebrity stories.
[00:05:32] DINO RAY RAMOS: I was actually a journalism major, and when I graduated, unfortunately 9/11 had just happened, so the job market was horrible. But, I eventually, I moved to the Bay Area, I got a job. Uh, this is like really fast forwarding [LAUGHTER] through a lot of stuff, because I graduated at a time when print journalism was dying a slow death, and internet journalism was coming on the up. But then there was this kind of tension between the two, because they're like, “Oh, this internet thing's a fad.” [LAUGHTER] I ended up at Deadline Hollywood. I did both film and TV there. I really worked in the space of diversity and inclusion. I was working in this space of entertainment advocacy. I left Deadline after four years, and I launched DIASPORA because I was just really wanting to focus on people of color, the queer community, underrepresented voices, disabled, anyone who has ever been in the margins. And I really want to focus on that, amplify those stories, and just champion underrepresented voices. And I think that's another reason why I was, like, kind of brings us back to Glee, because that's what Glee was about - outcasts, underrepresented people, people who didn't have a voice. It literally gave a voice to the voiceless. Like, literally, that's the story, right? If I'm being honest, I saw two Asian characters on there, and I was all, “That's interesting, are they part of the main cast? Because we don't get that often, you know? [LAUGHTER] I know it sounds cliche, but I saw myself represented in this show.
[00:07:04] SARA AZARI: What do you think was different and innovative? I think back to when I heard about the show, and I thought, “a bunch of high school kids, dancing and singing.” I mean, thinking about it, I couldn't really wrap my head around it.
[00:07:14] DINO RAY RAMOS: I think it was bringing up that conversation of inclusion before we were talking about it. I feel like Ryan Murphy created this show, cause I think he knew what was coming. Like he knew that there was gonna be this huge influx of diversity and inclusion, and he wanted to lead that charge. So, with the story, what was interesting to me is that, how they handled the outcasts, they gave them fully-fleshed-out arcs. We got to learn about them. Cause usually when we see a show like this, who is at the center? The jock and the cheerleader. They were the center here, but, it was a different lens. They had their foot in, like, the cool crowd, and then the geeky crowd, and kind of had to reconcile those relationships.
[00:07:57] SARA AZARI: I mean, the show was a bright star, and really a source of success for many of its cast members. But, it's also very much known for all of the deaths that occurred, right? (Mmm) Wasn't just the stars, but also crew members, you know (Hmm) who had died, unexpectedly, and at young ages. How much do you think the stress had to do with their, ultimately, with their death?
[00:08:23] DINO RAY RAMOS: I can't speak to if it directly affected them, cause, you know, we, we weren't there obviously. But I would be lying to say, if I didn't think it had something to do with it. Any sector of entertainment is gonna be stressful. And I feel like what happened with Glee, unfortunately, with all the deaths, is, I feel like it's something that's been happening all along. When Glee came out, the spotlight was already on it. So, it was always already this kind of like low-hanging fruit for this discussion about toxic workplace, long hours, demanding so much of someone. And it's sad, because, I do feel like this has been happening all along. It's just that Glee happened to be at a time where it was easy to expose it all through social media, through news, and all that.
[00:09:13] SARA AZARI: But, I feel there's something unique about Glee, in that you're not just going on set and shooting. You are then in dance classes, you are in voice classes, you're doing voiceovers. When you're off, you're really not off, you're touring. But, I feel like it's really unique in the demand and that pressure that it put on some of these people. When we're upset about a death, we always try to point the finger, try to find the reason, blame something. So, I don't know how much of it has to do with that, versus truly this show being uniquely demanding.
[00:09:47] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yeah, I'll speak to that. I’m gonna talk about myself. I look at my past experiences in this industry, although I wasn't an actor, I was in a newsroom, and one of the most intense newsrooms, right? I think we, actors especially, and everyone in this industry, we metaphorically slice pieces of ourself off to give to people, and they feast on it. And we are willing to do that, because if we don't, we lose it all. Or we feel like we're gonna lose it all. I don't know if this happened with the people who are in this cast and in the crew, but I do feel like that has something to do with it, because I think there's this immense pressure, even if you're in front of the camera, or behind the camera. Because, also there's so much at stake, because this is like a wild, global phenomenon known as Glee. And then I think once something gets really valuable, the space gets more toxic. And I can't imagine what like someone like Cory went through, or Naya, or everyone behind the scenes. It's just so sad. It puts this glaring light on Hollywood. I feel like the industry just tries to sweep under the rug, until it happens again, and then we talk about it, and then we sweep it under the rug again, and then we talk about it, and then we sweep it under the rug again. It's not necessarily the same thing, but it's in the industry, and that, I feel like there was a misstep there.
[00:11:16] SARA AZARI: I really do want to mention the people behind the scenes, cause I think we're so focused on, you know, the characters that we see that we connect with on screen, that we forget about people that make it happen, were so incredibly important. The half-sister to Julia Roberts, she committed suicide, she drowned in a bathtub. Jim Fuller had a heart attack at 41. Mitch Byerly also committed suicide. Mark Matson died in a car fire, and then a prop person died of a heart attack. It's just one too many. You can't say Glee is responsible for this person's death. But that darkness that people feel when they take their lives, it's really sort of, it comes from different places, and often it comes from a place where they spend most of their time in. And I feel like these people were just sucked, that all the life was sucked out of them with the demands that were on them. I mean, what do you think about the crew members who lost their lives?
[00:12:17] DINO RAY RAMOS: I think Glee should be serving as a case study for, like the entire industry. Because I do think that... I, I'm gonna take a wild swing here and, you know, think that Glee probably almost set this precedence of “work your fingers to the bone.” We were already doing that in this industry. There is no work/life balance in Hollywood at all, unfortunately. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Hollywood's a mess. [LAUGHTER]
[00:12:51] SARA AZARI: A deadly mess.
[00:12:53] DINO RAY RAMOS: A deadly mess.
[00:12:54] SARA AZARI: But even so, I don't buy the Glee curse thing, okay? I don't believe in curses and omens and I, I'm a lawyer by trade, so I look for facts. I look for evidence, I look for analysis, right? And so, when I heard “Glee curse,” I was like, oh, come on. I mean, okay, a bunch of people died. That's a coincidence of doom, but it's not really a curse. What do you think about the Glee curse?
[00:13:15] DINO RAY RAMOS: I don't believe in the curse. I think it's just un-, unfortunate circumstances, or a series of unfortunate events, or... it's definitely not a curse. It is also like... I want to say, I don't know if this is a appropriate thing to say, but like, sadness begets sadness. If you're gonna work in a sad place that's toxic, the byproducts are not gonna be good.
[00:13:39] SARA AZARI: So calling your attention to the domestic violence between Melissa Benoist and Blake Jenner. For our listeners, can you tell us who Melissa Benoist is, and who Blake Jenner is?
[00:13:51] DINO RAY RAMOS: They were a couple. Both of them are on Glee.
[00:13:54] SARA AZARI: They got married.
[00:13:55] DINO RAY RAMOS: I know Melissa from Supergirl, and then she had, like a rising star. And then Blake, Blake was kind of like this typical boy-next-door, handsome. And then, during the pandemic we get this Instagram post. I also take, like, besides that, we take into consideration what's going on in the world: Pandemic, racial reckoning (Locked up) Locked up...
[00:14:18] SARA AZARI: With people we might not like.
[00:14:19] DINO RAY RAMOS: A lot of people we might not like. [LAUGHTER] And then, like a lot of people have time for self-reflection. And when Melissa released this Instagram post explaining about her domestic abuse with Blake, it was very eye-opening.
[00:14:33] SARA AZARI: She doesn't name Blake Jenner, right? But, when you first listened to this, did you immediately know it was Blake Jenner (Yeah) or did something else happen later?
[00:14:44] DINO RAY RAMOS: I think everyone knew it was, because they've been out in public so much together, and they're a married couple.
[00:14:49] SARA AZARI: But what was your reaction to this post by her? I mean, it takes a lot of courage, right?
[00:14:53] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yeah, I think anyone coming forward to expose abuse, admit abuse, there's courage there. There, there's a lot of nuances that we could go on and on about domestic violence. One of the things I really hate when people say, well, why didn't they come out sooner? You know, it's like, that's a, that's a long conversation, you know?
[00:15:12] SARA AZARI: Well, as a lawyer I can tell you, that's also a conversation that an expert will come to court and explain that that is the cycle of abuse. (Mm-hmm) That you cannot look at a victim and say, well, because they were late... sometimes it takes 20 years. That's why now, more and more, we see the statute of limitations getting extended on these cases, because it takes so much courage (It does) to come forward. But, to me, and this is why I was interested in asking you about this, is that, I think that courage is 10x when it comes to a celebrity. Because, isn't there that fear also that, I'm not just coming forward as a woman, a victim of abuse, but I'm coming forward as an actress in Hollywood, and how is that going to label me?
[00:15:56] DINO RAY RAMOS: Hmm. I feel like there is a lot more at stake for them, because they're a front-facing person.
[00:16:01] SARA AZARI: Exactly. But I also think that it's so important for them to use their platform. (Yeah) What did you think about Blake Jenner, who responded to Melissa's post?
[00:16:12] DINO RAY RAMOS: I was watching, and I felt for her, obviously. And, and then, like, wrote the story, saw Blake’s follow-up. But, when you have such a strong kind of admission or a story like that, and then you have the guy who is allegedly responsible for it, you're just like, you don't want to pay attention to him. That's like me being me. But, as a journalist, I was like, “Oh, okay, we'll report on this.” But also, at the same time, that story came and went, which was very interesting to me. And the media cycle has been, and especially in entertainment, is so fleeting.
[00:16:54] SARA AZARI: I had a different reaction (Okay) to Blake. I thought his statement was also genuine. I know, I totally get (Yeah) your not wanting to like give you any time or media coverage. But in, in my line of work, you know, working in criminal justice, I feel like, it's so incredibly also courageous for somebody who is responsible for that act to be able to come forward, make amends, own their, you know, and say, “I, I can't forgive myself. I'm still trying to forgive myself.” I took that as being genuine. And I also thought it was interesting that it wasn't, you know, he didn't just start off going, “She's the crazy one. (Yeah) She hit me.) So I believed him.
[00:17:35] DINO RAY RAMOS: Don't get me [LAUGHTER]. I don't appreciate Blake. But what I think was good about that, is that he was one of the few men that held himself accountable. We're always looking for accountability in any sector of war. Someone to fess up, to admit that they were wrong. And that is so hard to get in Hollywood, because everyone thinks they're right. [LAUGHTER]
[00:17:55] SARA AZARI: Just sidetracking real quick. When you were contacted about doing this podcast, did you have any concerns (No) about doing the interview? The reason I ask you that, is because on October 12th of this year, Deadline broke the story that The Price of Glee, which is a three-part documentary, would be airing in 2023, and it was a leak. Ryan Murphy, you know, maybe it's the same coincidence of all the deaths on Glee, I don't know. But, he gave a podcast interview, and the podcast is about Glee. It's called, And That’s What You Really Missed. They hadn't been recording the podcast for a long time, suddenly, you know, Ryan Murphy comes on his podcast, right? And they interview him, and he's very regretful about some of, some of the ways he handled...
[00:18:38] DINO RAY RAMOS: Sorry, you saw me roll my eyes. [LAUGHTER]
[00:18:41] SARA AZARI: You know, he's very regretful about some of the ways that he's been criticized for handling some of what happened on Glee. For instance, when Cory died, and it was like, “chop-chop, we're back to business.” You know, that was terrible. I mean these, these, these cast members who were, really just together 24/7 and bonded, had no opportunity to grieve. Right? I think there was a lot of regret that he expressed on this podcast. What's your reaction? I mean, do you think he's really genuinely rethinking that the way he handled it is not the right way?
[00:19:15] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yeah. I think I rolled my eyes just because, it just seems such like a Hollywood thing to do. You know? Like, it's a reactionary, right?
[00:19:23] SARA AZARI: To get ahead of something. (Yeah, exactly.) Yeah, I thought he was getting ahead.
[00:19:27] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yeah. Or, maybe they had this planned the whole time. We don't know. But it does seem conspicuous, or coincidental. Let's say that, he did this. I do think he's genuine, because I also think, maybe the show was a learning process for Ryan as well. I also think that, maybe he purposely kind of stayed out of the spotlight among all this mess, because he didn't want to get involved, and he just kind of kept it to himself or kept talked to other people. I'm not sure. That whole thing of like, all death, go back to work thing. Very popular in Hollywood. Very popular.
[00:19:59] SARA AZARI: It was terrible. It was so heartless. I just thought it was very irresponsible and very heartless.
[00:20:05] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yeah, but I think that's a popular thing in the industry. I remember when my grandmother died, my grandmother died on New Year's Day, 2019. (Mmm) And I was all, “I have to go to the Philippines,” you know, I have to, she helped raise me. I told my bosses, and I said, or, something to the effect of, “Don't worry, I'll be back for Sundance.” I look at that now, and I'm all, that's disgusting. And the fact that my bosses didn't even say, “Go to the Philippines, spend time with your family, grieve.” No. But I, I don't say I want to blame myself, but that is what we do in this industry, is like, suck it up, move on.
[00:20:43] SARA AZARI: Well, I also think it's a fear of, like, if I was in that position where my boss was like, sure, you know, go, I still would have that fear of, I'm so disposable that I could still be replaced. It's that insecurity that comes with it.
[00:20:59] DINO RAY RAMOS: I feel like, on that cast and the crew, and even Ryan, even though the show was a complete success, they were still in survival mode. They were like, because (Of course) it, it's like one day you're in, one day... it's very... anything could be cut at a moment's notice here in the industry. But now it's a different kind of industry now than it was when Glee was here.
[00:21:21] SARA AZARI: I do want to ask you about Cory's death, the overdose in Vancouver. In the realm of that finger-pointing and the blaming, the stress of Glee, sort of pushing some of these people over the edge, you know, there's a lot of drug addiction, and also a lot of sobriety in Hollywood. I know some celebrities that have been sober that are still working. The demands are still there, but it's not, you know, they're grounded in their sobriety, and they're not being pushed over the edge. You're not getting sober to be a recluse. You're getting sober to have a great life, right? And you're getting sober to achieve your dreams and do the things you want to do. So, to me, it was like, why are they blaming the show? Because Cory, he'd been to treatment. Now, we know that it takes multiple tries. Some people make it, some people don't. But with Cory, it was like, he got a great opportunity because he was sober. He got this part on Glee, you know, I believe, because he got his drug addiction under control, at least for a certain period of time. I don't like that blame game (Yeah) when it comes to sober people in Hollywood. Because look, I mean, it's your job. You've gotta do your job. You've gotta be grounded in your sobriety to deal with those triggers, right? (Yeah) What's your experience with that, and how much of it you can blame on Hollywood that somebody relapses?
[00:22:45] DINO RAY RAMOS: You know, it's, it's so, like, I don't want to say, like saying blaming Hollywood is interesting, because, we chose to be in this industry. That's, that's the kind of the thing, right? But I do feel like addiction is such a devastating beast. And when you are in a high-pressure environment and you have no one to turn to but drugs or alcohol or whatever, you know, and that's like the only thing that's gonna be there. So, that, you know, you could run to it all the time. With Cory, that was, that was so upsetting for me, because he was such a sweet guy on the show, and I feel like that was an extension of who he really was. And what I really enjoyed about Cory is when him and Chris's character became brothers. And to kind of see this like, really jockey guy embrace this queer character with, like all his heart. You don't see that a lot. And I think that kind of set this precedence of like, it's okay if jocks like gay guys, and lesbians and queer people. They're still jocks, you know? So it was really sad. It was just an unfortunate story with him. I'm not blaming anyone for his death or anything. It's just that... we don't know what's going on with people, unless you ask, or you're there for them.
[00:24:07] SARA AZARI: I think we'd be remiss to think it's just, you know, being on Glee or whatever [OVERLAPPING] (Yeah, I think...) I think he had demons that were deep-rooted, right?
[00:24:15] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yeah, cause he already had problems with addiction, right? That's the thing. It's like, so, to blame Glee is just like a [OVERLAPPING] (Missing the point) Yeah. Also, you're take, you're kind of, almost diminishing his own journey. I think with Cory, Glee was almost that baking soda in the vinegar that made it kind of like [OVERLAPPING]
[00:24:31] SARA AZARI: Fester up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do want to end with some (Yeah) important thoughts, because, you know, you're the expert on celebrity, and you're a journalist. Um, what makes fame deadly?
[00:24:43] DINO RAY RAMOS: Ego. [LAUGHTER] I think, we're in this town of ego. Like, everyone's stroking each other's egos. It's kind of almost like the blind leading the blind. A lot of “fake it till you make it.” I do think ego is so dangerous, because once you get, let that get into the way of your kind of humanity and your groundedness... I always say, “pull yourself back to center.” And I love doing that, just because, if I get too far from where I need to be, then there's gonna be a problem.
[00:25:13] SARA AZARI: I feel like your job is so important, because you are exposing those things about Hollywood, as you should. And, you know, hindsight's 2020 and you were a Gleek Gleek-adjacent. How do you feel about it today? Do you still think of it the same way you did when you had that appreciation for its inclusion and its innovative aspect?
[00:25:35] DINO RAY RAMOS: Yes. I will say, that pilot episode, there's something very touching about that episode, that Ryan Murphy caught lightning in a bottle. They sang Don't Stop Believing, and that became an anthem during that time, and it got overplayed so much. But that pilot was pretty amazing. If we didn't have Glee, we wouldn't have a lot of the things we have today. I feel like Ryan did help open this door to inclusion, and he helped amplify queer voices in a way that I've never seen before. We got to see new talent. It's unfortunate that Naya left us. But she was on that show Step Up, and she had this like budding career happening. But it's just hard conversation of like, it's the whole thing, “like the art, hate the artist” kind of thing. Here's a good way of putting it. I love what Glee stood for.
[00:26:27] SARA AZARI: But I think Hollywood as a culture (Yeah) it seems like, certainly from this conversation (Mm-hmm) I'm getting that the talent and the crew are just pieces of a machine that needs to function and make money, and, and make it big, and win the Oscar (Yeah) whatever the award is. And there's not a lot of care beyond that. It's brutal, for lack of a better word. You work to death, literally sometimes. (Mm-hmm, yeah) And then, even after the death, there's no humanity in, in, you know, you're not given that space to deal with it. I was shocked at it, but I'm starting to learn from people like you, that that's kind of norm.
[00:27:09] DINO RAY RAMOS: It's a norm that needs to change.
[00:27:11] SARA AZARI: Thank you so much for joining me today, Dino. I would love to have more conversations (Of course) about crime and fame. [LAUGHTER] They’re, very much, there's very much an overlap there. So, maybe another crime, another time (Yeah, another crime) another fame.
[00:27:25] DINO RAY RAMOS: I, I would love to talk about crime and stuff. [LAUGHTER]
[00:27:29] SARA AZARI: Thanks for being with me. Thank you.
DINO RAY RAMOS: Thank you.
[00:27:34] SARA AZARI: Welcome to Sara's sidebar. [SOUND OF GAVEL RAPPING ON WOOD) By the way, for those of you who don't know what a “sidebar” is, it's a private conversation between the attorneys and the judge, off the record. No, we don't drink booze, we don't serve booze, unfortunately. We do that after court. Before we wrap this episode, I want to talk about a few things that come up in this case from a legal perspective. We didn't get into this much in the interview, but I do want to talk a little bit about Naya Rivera's death, and her family's lawsuit against Lake Piru and the Ventura County Parks and Recreation Management Agency, as well as the United Water Conservation District. The suit accuses each of these organizations and entities of neglecting to sufficiently warn visitors of the lake’s dangers, and to provide appropriate safety equipment. As well as for inflicting emotional distress on her son, the child who witnessed his mother's death. The family eventually settled this lawsuit in March of 2022. So what does this all mean legally?
[00:28:37] SARA AZARI: For this settlement to have happened, a locality must have had some level of negligence, by omission in Naya Rivera's death. Wrongful-death lawsuits involving a lack of warning, really turn on notice. Was the locality aware that the conditions were dangerous? Were there other deaths, drownings, injuries in this lake that would've put them on notice? And if so, did they take any steps to address the issues that they discovered, or had notice of? It seems to me that here, the county and locality must have known of dangerous conditions posed by the lake. And despite that knowledge, they failed to warn the public, and they also failed to provide equipment to address the safety concerns. That is a very typical theory of liability. And when it can be proven by a preponderance of the evidence, there is often a settlement, because otherwise trial would be a futile effort.
[00:29:34] SARA AZARI: Next, I briefly want to chat through the allegations between Melissa Benoist and Blake Jenner. As Dino and I discussed earlier in the podcast, Melissa Benoist indirectly accused Blake Jenner of IPV, which stands for Intimate Partner Violence. That is domestic violence between two people that are involved in an intimate relationship. So, how are cases like this treated in a court of law? Now, domestic violence allegations come in two forms, you have the, “he said, she said” cases that are largely uncorroborated. And then those that are corroborated with injuries and/or witnesses or other types of documents. Obviously, a case where the victim's statements can be corroborated by witnesses is a slam/dunk charge, and potentially a conviction. But typically, there's nobody in the room besides the victim and the perpetrator. So, we look for injuries. Did the victim sustain injuries that are documented? Are there medical records that corroborate the injuries? If so, then that makes it a stronger case for filing a charge.
[00:30:38] If there is no corroboration, the charge would turn on credibility. Who has the more credible story, or version of the story? And that's a very difficult call to make without other circumstantial evidence that the violent acts, in fact, occurred. One of the common questions is, let's just say, the statute of limitations is alive, whether this misdemeanor or a felony, and that charges could get filed. Why is it that charges have not been filed? When you have Blake, essentially admitting, to the accusations that Melissa made. And a common scenario is that, when you have a victim of domestic violence and there's no severe injuries and they're not desirous of prosecution, which seems to be the case here, the DA may not file charges, because, ultimately the decision’s made that these people are moving on, they're not even together anymore, there's no desire to prosecute.
[00:31:40] The other issue is Blake's admission. He's on social media, essentially stating a confession to domestic violence. And, I know a lot of us think that what we say in social media, sort of in the ether, doesn't really matter, cause people post things and say things, and it doesn't really mean much. Not in a court of law. Anything you say, anywhere can, and will be used against you. If it's a post, if it's written, if it's, you know, a video, it doesn't matter the format. I mean, this is a slam/dunk admission. And absolutely, if charges were to be filed against him, that statement will be used against him. Basically, it's an open-and-shut case, because he's admitted to throwing the phone at her. So again, statements you make anywhere, can and will be used against you. And that's why, as a criminal defense attorney, I always say “zip it up.”
[00:32:48] SARA AZARI: That's it for this episode of Death by Fame. Be sure to join me next week. I am joined by Amber Ryland to discuss the mysterious death of Britney Murphy.
[00:32:59] FEMALE: She hit the floor. So I went running in, she was down, I screamed for Sharon. Sharon came running in. That's when the 911 call happened.
[00:33:09] SARA AZARI: Don't miss it.